Black Friday

One of the reasons why I started with the pre-heresy Thousand Sons is that I thought it would be cheap since I have almost everything already.



Boy was I wrong! I just spent over $200 at the war store and I still have not bought any vehicles yet.

I did buy all of the bases though, and they should be here soon. I found a good tutorial on how to paint them here:

http://www.chestofcolors.com/cofc-postnuke/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=45&page=1



One of the big stumbling blocks is the transfers. Here are the 2 decal prints that are already done for the Thousand Sons:


Thanks to Tubal over on the B&C for this




This is from BoLS

As everyone knows, home printers don't print white, so I have a couple of options. The first is to have them professionally done which will cost $50-$100. The other option is to print them on white decal paper, and cut each symbol out individually. This is the long and tedious option, but it will be a lot cheaper. I ordered some white decal paper to see if it will be feasible.

Some more about comp

When I was writing about comp I forgot my favorite saying back when comp was all the rage several years ago:


 
A fluffy army is Space Marines.

A cheesy army is anything that can beat Space Marines.

Thousand Sons update

I have been collecting bits and pieces of my Thousand Sons for a few years now and I am finally getting around to putting them all together.

I did an inventory and I was surprised with what I had. I thought I had everything that I needed, but when I laid them all out I saw just how much I was missing. I collected all of the rare pre-heresy parts that I needed like the chest pieces and the heads, but what I found out was that I am missing all of the backs of the chest, and all of the legs. So I need to start to order a bunch of bits so I have everything for a complete marine.



While I am waiting on the bitz/bases in the meantime I will throw a couple of spawn together incase Ahriman goes nuts with the Gift of Chaos.

What are the top tier armies?

There is an interesting post over on Dakka. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/266407.page

That asks the question what are the top lists?


 
In the past I would put them into 3 tiers (good, bad, and ugly) and listed the most competitive builds. But after some thought, I no longer do this, and the reasons why is that I think you can win with any codex. The codexes that I thought were in the bottom of the tiered system were Necrons and Demonhunters and I think that I can win with both of them.


 
I will make the argument that what everyone thinks are top tier lists are just easier to play, and not necessarily better than the other codexes. And don't get me wrong by thinking that what I am saying is that you can win with any units, and that any 1500 points is the same and any other 1500 points, but each codex has enough good units that can work together well enough to where you can build a successful winning army.


 
Take for example, what everyone thinks are a top tier chaos list. You have tough demon princes, plague marines that just sit around and take damage, and oblits. It is a pretty easy army to play. You can also look at what people think are top tier Eldar builds of Mech and Seer council. Mech Eldar armies work under the principle of if your opponent does not have enough anti-tank you win, if they do then you are in trouble. The seer council just has a very durable unit that just heads to the opponents, and assaults. Not much brain power required. Both those builds are super easy to play.


 
Necrons vs. Imperial Guard.

A lot of people think that Necrons are one of the worst armies and at the bottom if the tiers. If you look at the results of the UK GT heat #2 Necrons did well with one person coming in at 8^th place (higher than any Space Marine player). Why was that possible? Because you can win with Necrons. The army plays similar to my Eldar do because they are able to shoot a lot of strength 6 shooting, and they are quite durable. Here is the problem with them, they are bad in assault, so what players have to do with them is think 2-3 turns ahead and plan accordingly. This is the same as the 4^th edition IG codex. You had to plan your moves and think ahead several turns to win with this army. Now that the 5^th edition IG codex is here, there is a lot less thinking that you have to do with Vendettas, Valkyries, and all of the different HS choices that the army is now on "easy mode" and requires much less thought.


 

I need to hurry on my Thousand Sons!

It looks like I need to get going on my Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons. I was planning on having it ready for Adepticon, but with the release of the new GT Tournament Circuit, I have to change my time table and get a move on!


 
ConQuest GT

The ConQuest GT is in only 2 months away and they have a lot of points for painting and conversions. You get 100 points max for battle, and 50 points for painting/conversions.

http://www.con-quest.com/

If I can get my army really, that would be a good way to score a lot of points, but I do not think I can make it in time. I am a slow painter already, and to make a full 2000 point army from scratch will take a good long time. I am on the fence about going to this event, so a lot will depend on how far along my army is to getting done.


 
Broadside Bash

It looks like it is the same thing with the Broadside Bash, where they have 100 battle points possible with 33 points coming from painting, 36 from player scored comp (argh!) and sportsmanship. So out of a possible 200 points, only 100 point will be battle points, and the rest are player judged. I told myself that I was not going to go to The Broadside Bash again, but I think I will give it another chance. The problems with it last year was that the area was really cramped together, it is a 2000 point tournament and they said that they had 2.5 hours a round, and it came out to be more like 1.5.

http://www.broadsidebash.com/rules.php


 

 
So I need to finish my Thousand Sons and fast so I can try to max out on the paint scores. I have been waiting on the War Store's Black Friday sale so I can pick up a lot of these bases:

http://www.thewarstore.com/MASTempleBases.html

I am off next week, so I will try to do some work on them.

GT Circuit Events for 2010

Well, it looks like GW released the tournament circuit events for 2010.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=1&aId=14700053&start=2


I plan on going to the events below:


January2010Conquest Slaughter15th-17thSeattle

February2010Broadside Bash12th-14thLos Angeles (I did not like it last year, and I was not going to go, but now it looks like I will go and a lot of others will as well)

March2010Adepticon26th-28thChicago

April2010Slaughter in SpaceTBDLos Angeles

June2010ConQuest Invasion26th-27thLos Angeles? (Never heard of this event/convention)

July201040K 'Ard Boyz Finals17thChicago (If I make it to the finals)

July2010Bolscon29th-1stAustin

August2010Socal SlaughterTBDLos Angeles





It looks like a lot of trips to LA for me. I might go to more or less events depending on how well I do.

Comp Part II

In my comp article I wanted to say that I was talking about 40k. Fantasy is a mess right now, and they may need some kind of comp system because they have 3 army books that are overpowered compared to of all of the others. I know that GW wants a little bit of codex creep to sell new figures, but they are doing a very bad job of balancing Fantasy right now.


 
For the most part I think 40k is in good shape as far as balancing goes. To give an example of this here are the results of the Heat #2 of the UK GT that took place last weekend. Remember that this is a 1500 point, no comp, bring the hardest armies you can make:


 
1) Mark Burstall - Orks
2) Simone Di Tomaso - CSM
3) Kiam Reddy - Eldar
4) Felix Porras Munoz - CSM
5) Ricardo Bacelo Polo - Orks
6) Andrew Church - Blood Angels
7) Alexander Fennell - Imperial Guard
8) Manuel Andres Fernandez - Necrons
9) David Fairweather - Daemons
10) Gianni Vacca - Imperial Guard


 
We see that there are 7 different armies in the top ten. That is pretty good. Not only that but Necrons* who everyone says are a bad army had a good showing. Also I am glad that I sold my Heat 2 ticket to Alex so he could place 7^th. J


 
If I have to point a finger at the imbalances in 40k have more to do with certain units instead of armies in general. When 5^th edition rolled out, it made previously mediocre units very powerful. Nob Bikers, Seer Councils, Mech armies, etc. So I would say that if you were going to have comp, it would be to limit certain units, and not really punish armies.


 
*I like Necrons, they kind of play like my Eldar army. They can chuck a lot of strength 6 shooting down-range and they are fast and durable. At the Wild West Shootout I won a Necron army and I am tempted to play one, but I told myself that I need to cut my armies down to only 5.

The death of comp

Comp? I hate comp!
And this is coming from someone who is pretty much comp friendly. Chaos is my main army, and I only own 3 Obliterators, no Plague Marines, and I took 1 Lash for the first time at the Adepticon Gladiator last year.



To first talk about comp we have to figure out what is comp? Comp is a way of handicapping armies so that they are all equal. Since Games Workshop makes codexes that are not equal in power, comp is a way to try to make all of them equal. There would be no need for comp if GW balanced their codexes better, but they are either unable or unwilling to do it.



Balancing the codexs seems like a good idea, but it is impossible to achieve.

The first problem is that what codexes/units need balancing? If you ask 5 people you will get 5 different answers, so now one can even agree what needs to be fixed.

The second part is how do you even balance them?



I have played in many comp systems and they are all bad…very very bad.

Let's take a look at a few of the different comp systems:

Player judged comp:

Player judged comp is bad because everyone has prejudices that sometimes are not based on reality. At the Baltimore GT in 2008 I played SoB and my opponent did not like my army because I took 3 Exorcists. He did not like me spamming any one unit for all of my heavy support choices. Never mind that Exorcists are the Witchhunters only ranged anti-tank, and the only way they can deal with Mech armies, and lots of Oblits etc. The funny thing is that he had 2 Land Raiders, and there was no way that I could deal with them without the Exorcists.

Check lists:

I played in a 5 game GT style tournament in Sacramento a couple of years ago and they had a long laundry list of items that you get penalized for. They wanted you to take a lot of troops, no AP 2 weapons, etc. The problem, not all armies fit in to a check list. I brought a Thousand Sons armies that people think was pretty tame, and most people thought were one of the weakest armies, and I got the worst comp score. The Thousand Sons have very few but very expensive troops, so when you make everyone take more troops than other selections in the army, they are penalized. Same with armies like Tau. Why should I get penalized when I am playing a weak and fluffy army? Some armies are not meant to have a ton of troops, and not every army has access to weapons like missile launchers that can take the place of lascannons. When you make a list of what you can do and what you can't then all that happened is that some armies get penalized unfairly, and others get through that should have some limits placed on them. Here is that comp system that was changed for 5^th edition and it is not as bad as it was, but still hurts some armies;

http://www.greatescapegames.com/ContestofChampions/40K/COC%20Comp%20Scoring.htm



Here is a hybrid comp score from Da Boyz GT that combined 15 points of check list, and 25 points of player judged.

http://www.daboyzgt.com/gt09/Final%20Comp.htm

Judge Scoring:

This is an ok way to go, but you are still open to what the judge thinks is cheesy and what is not. Also when you travel around to RTTs, the locals always get much better scores than the out-of-towners, for a couple of reasons. One is that they are friends with the judges, the other is that the locals know what armies and units are cheesy in that area, and what are not (it is strange to see how much local variance to what is considered cheesy). To give an example of this I brought a Tyranid army down to an RTT at Game Empire in San Diego and my comp score was horrible. It seems that one of the best players down there played Tyranids, and they all hated the army because he was crushing people with it. It is funny how the local perception was so distorted from the national thoughts on the codex because a very good player played that army, so they thought that the army was cheesy, and everyone who used it was cheesy as well.



The ugly side of comp:

If you try to institute comp, and all comp does is shift what the cheesy armies are that work within the comp system. To use a Fantasy example, at The Tides of War 2 day tournament that was held in Mesa, AZ last month, they had a comp restriction. Fantasy arguably needs comp because their army books are way out of whack, so what they did was put restrictions in to make their games more comp friendly. So what everyone does is look to find what the most powerful builds that can fit into what ever comp system they are using. So what happened is that beastmen were the best army that got by the comp system and ended up with a good showing because of it.

Comp makes you soft. At the UK GT they were wondering why all of the Italians and the Spanish always do very well in their heats. Why is that? There are a couple of reasons, if you are flying to a major event you are there to compete and have a good showing. Also the UK for the most part (other than the UK GT) is very comp friendly and that has made the English soft when they go up against the other Europeans who do not play with comp.



Here is another thing that is awful about comp. Here you are being Mr. Nice Guy and bring a nice fluffy list, and here comes TFG who totally ignores the comp rules and takes the nastiest list that they can and crushes everyone. In that Sacramento GT there was a guy who brought an armored company and with all of the restrictions on bring heavy weapons for everyone else, he was crushing people. In round #1 he phased out a Necron player in turn #1 before he had a chance to move. Sounds like fun?

So when you go to a GT that does not have comp you will need to deal with it, and not complain about other armies that are taking advantage of it.


Let's us all understand that comp is dead, and that we all have to fight it out without it there to protect some armies.

Demonhunters for the Conquest GT

So I am thinking about heading on up to the Conquest GT in Seattle next Jan. I thought I would play my Demon Hunters and this is what I came up with for a list:

HQ

Inquisitor w/Psycannon, Null Rod, Emperor's Tarot, Psychic Hood.

2 Sages

3 Mystics

1 Familiar

3 Warrors w/2 Heavy Bolters, Plasma Cannon

Land Raider



Grey Knight Brother Captain w/Psycannon



Elite
Callidus Assassin



Troops

5 Grey Knights w/2 Psycannons

1 Grey Knight Justicar



5 Grey Knights w/2 Psycannons

1 Grey Knight Justicar



5 Storm Troopers w/2 Melta Guns

Chimera



5 Storm Troopers w/2 Melta Guns

Chimera



Heavy Support

Land Raider

Dreadnought w/TL Lascannon

Dreadnought w/TL Lascannon, Missile Launcher

I prefer a shooting style of Demon Hunters. Lots of TL lascannons, and strength 6 Psycannons.

ETC

Well, I was talking to some people about being part of the USA contingent to the 40k European Team Championships where teams of 8 players from different countries play for national pride, then I get this e-mail:

"You recently signed up for both the 40K Gladiator and 40K Championships at AdeptiCon 2010. Since you registered we have added some information regarding the European Team Championships. Participation in both the above mentioned events is required to qualify for ETC consideration. If you are interested in being considered a potential candidate for the ETC, simply respond to this email stating your participation and we will add you to the list.

Additional information regarding the ETC can be found here:
http://www.adepticon.org/10rules/etc.pdf "


 
I have been trying to get a team to go to the ETC for a while, but I was unable to get any traction.


 
What people don't understand is that you are talking about a 16 hour plane ride (not including the 3 layovers) at the cost of $1500 for a few games of 40k. And that is just to get you in the door. Then you are talking about lodging, food etc, not to mention that summer is the peak tourist season in Europe, and Germany is one of the most expensive countries, and the list goes on. People have trouble going to Adepticon, and you want them to travel across the world to play? I would think that it would be best to find 8 bodies that want to go rather than being too picky about who you have going.


 
To give you an example of this, they have been trying to get a second Dakka Dakka team to Adepticon and they always have people fall out, and things come up, etc. To get people to Germany not only do they have a huge logistical problem, but who of us can really say that we can do anything as far away as August? People get laid off, they get into relationships, they run into fanatical problems, lose interest in 40k etc. and that is with plenty of warning. Then they want to invite 2 people in April to see if they can go? Right now my work is bidding on vacation time for 2010, so I would need to know now if I was on the team, not in April.

IMO they are going about it wrong, and they just need some commitments from people, and not worry about everything else. England could not go because they could not get the people 2 years ago and for them it is a 2.5 hour flight at $250, and they are not the only team that has had these problems.


 
I don't know, I wanted to go and make a European vacation out of it, but the audition process has turned me off. I have a feeling that I could be at the bottom of the standings at Adepticon and get an invite since they can't get anyone else to go. The whole process makes the UK GT that much more appealing.

Army list tinkering

I was doing some thinking about Pre-Heresy armies and I came to the conclusion that they look really nice, but they are very boring on the table top.

Take everything that is at least a little interesting in the Space Marine codex and Chaos Codex and throw them out, and what you have left is a Pre-Heresy army.

You do have a great looking army thought because you have Jetbikes instead of bikes, turbo-fan back packs instead of the regular assault marines, and the unique look of the earlier space marine armors.

But underneath the look you have a very basic army.

I have changed around some things so here is the army so far:


 
Ahriman

Dreadnought

10 Chaos Space Marines

10 Chaos Space Marines

Rhino

9 Thousand Sons

5 Oblits

Land Raider

I traded the havocs for a land raider. I did this for a few reasons. Some armies just do not have an answer for Land Raiders. Also it is mobile and can move troops around while Havocs have a little better firepower, but they are very static. The good news is that it means that I have to do 10 less marines, and will have an interesting model to work on. Sure makes the army rather small though which is both good and bad. If I was not so interested in the look of the army and wanted to go for more power I would drop Ahriman and the dreadnought and up the firepower and maybe some terminators for counter assault.

A quick update

A little news:

 

BoK contacted me to do a little work for them. They have an interesting 40K blog so if you have never checked them out before you can find them here:

http://bloodofkittens.com/?p=1880

 

Also there was some talk about doing a full in depth battle report. What I mean by that is not just writing down what happened, but a full tactical breakdown of every little movement. I am thinking about it, but it will be a lot of work.

Adepticon

I just signed up for Adepticon.

I told myself that I was going to take it easy for next year, and not do the Gladiator, but I ended up signing up for it anyways. If they had some better games or seminars I would skip it.



So once again I find myself doing the Iron Man of 4 Gladiator Games, 4 Team Tournament Games and 3 Championship games.



I love being there, but at the end of the weekend I am burned out, and I am glad to come home.

I also added a painting seminar from Chris Borer. I normally I am playing in tournaments and can't take a seminar, but I am glad that they scheduled one after the Gladiator so I can go. Of course it ends at 12 midnight, and I have to wake up at 7:00am or so for the Team Tournament, and I am already jet lagged, so that ain't going to be pretty.



Now I need to make a 2250 point Gladiator army. I am not a big forgeworld guy, but I told myself that I will bring something with some structure points this year. Maybe a Silver Tower of Tzeentch, or a Brass Scorpion or maybe I will just run a regular army.

Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons part II

Taking the units from the previous post, here is the preliminary list:



HQs

Ahriman-Chief Librarian of the Thousand Sons

Ahriman -250 Points



Elites

Kargori Dreadnought

Dreadnought w/Multimelta, Extra armor -115 Points



Troops

Jafari Tactical Support Squad

9 CSM w/Lascannon, Plasma Gun, IoCG -225 points

Aspiring Champion w/Power Weapon



Pa-Siamun Tactical Squad

9 CSM w/Lascannon, Plasma Gun, IoCG -270 -points

Aspiring Champion w/Power Fist

Tu-Amun Rhino

Rhino 35 points



Ankhu Anen- Thousand Sons Guardians of the Great Library

8 Thousand Sons -304

Aspiring Sorcerer w/Bolt of Change

Tu-Amun Rhino

Rhino



Heavy Support

Sobek-Heavy Support Squad (Missile Launcher)

8 Havoc Marines w/4 Missile Launchers, IoCG -225 Points



Rehahti Magnus's coven

3 Obliterators -210



Uthizaar's sect

2 Obliterators -150



1749 Points.

Strength:

It has 8+ units that can shoot strength 8 shots. Lot of people look at the amount of the shooting, and don't realize that you need a lot of units that can shoot at different targets. Although some of the shooting is strength 8 AP1 is only 24"

Weakness:

Assault. Ahriman is the only model good in assault, and he is just ok. They have nice pictures of the Thousand Son's assault squads and I might do a squad of them since I found a company that sells the resin pre-heresy turbofan backpacks.

Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons

He begining

I am a long time Thousand Sons player and I would like to re-visit them. I have been in the hobby for a while and I took most of 2^nd edition off when I lived in Utah, and when I came back into the hobby near the end of 3^rd and I did it with the Thousand Sons. Even though everyone said that they are a bad army I loved the look of the army and the fluff for them. In fact, they have the best background story in 40k. So when I started playing them I started to win a lot of RTTs. So when I posted my batreps I got the same reaction from everyone that I do now winning with an army that the "group think" says that you can't win with.

I tapered off a bit with 4^th edition with them because of the use of scoring units. My army was so small to start with that by the end of the game my units were all chewed up. I killed more VPs then my opponent did, but they still had more units than me and were able to win the game. Then the 4^th edition chaos codex came out and that was the end of a real Thousand Sons army. I still play a combination of my Word Bearers with my Thousand Sons, and I try to keep to the fluff, but it is just not the same. To mix it up a little I took my 3^rd edition Thousand Sons army to Adepticon last year and I even went 2 for 2 in the Gladiator but only 0-2-1 and against the hardest lists I have seen at the Invitational.


 
Building a winning army:

When you are building a pre-heresy army you really have 2 codexs to choose from, Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines. I debated back and forth, and even though the Space Marine codex has things like Land Speeders that the Chaos list doesn't I still am going with the Chaos Codex.

Now the chaos codex is ok, and I have played a lot of games with it, and made it work without lash and 9 oblits, but you almost have to take out all of the good units of the codex to make it a pre-heresy army. I already started out handicapped when I played a Thousand Sons based army so that means that I could not take any other marks other than Tzeentch, but when you make it a pre-heresy army you also can't take any good units like Demon Princes, Oblits, etc. and that really neuters the army.

So let's look at what I can take.

Here is a list of the units that appear in the Horus Heresy Visions of War books:

HQs

Ahriman-Chief Librarian of the Thousand Sons

Uthizaar Librarian-Sorcerer

Phosis T'Kar Librarian-Sorcerer

Hathor Maat Librarian-Sorcerer

Brother Amsu

Apophis Command Squad


 
Elites

Sekhmet- Terminators


 
Kargori Dreadnought


 
Troops

Prahotpe recon squad

Prahote recon Squad

Tolbek Tactical Squad

Jafari Tactical Support Squad

Pa-Siamun Tactical Squad

Tu-Amun Rhino


 
Fast Attack

Amunis Assault Squad

Resenmut Assault Squad

Menkaura Assault squad

Qaa Land Speeder


 
Heavy Support

Sobek-Heavy Support Squad (Missile Launcher)

Kalid Heavy Support Squad (Heavy Bolters)

Nebmaetre Heavy Support Squad (Plasma Guns)

Amensos-Heavy Support Squad


 
Unknown

T'Kaar Cabel

Uthizaar's sect

Rehahti Magnus's coven

Ankhu Anen- Thousand Sons Guardians of the Great Library

The scarab occult


 
Now let's take those units and see if we can distil it down to a working army.


 
HQ

Ahriman-Chief Librarian of the Thousand Sons

I would like to take Ahriman to give the army some panache and he had been upgraded a little bit this edition; (it was odd that the most powerful librarian in the universe couldn't even use a power/force weapon and they finally got around to giving him one). He is not worth his points, but he is a matter of style over substance. I thought about adding another sorcerer right now, and if I take the list up to 2000 point I might, but for now, just Ahriman will have to do.

Elite

Kargori Dreadnought

Chaos dreadnoughts are a bit of a loose cannon, but they have their uses. They are great at tying up assault units that do not have high strength, like bloodcrushers, etc.

Troops

Tolbek Tactical Squad

Jafari Tactical Support Squad

Pa-Siamun Tactical Squad

Tu-Amun Rhino


 
Normal Chaos Marine squads are a must haves and are good all-around shooting and assault units.


 

Heavy Support

Sobek-Heavy Support Squad (Missile Launcher)

I like havoc squads. Missile launchers are good all-around heavy weapons that are good at killing vehicles, hordes and MEQs.


 
So with that I have the core of my army. But that is not enough, and that army is so boring and vanilla *yawn* looking at those units long enough and it will cure your insomnia.


 
So what I am going to do is take some creative license and step out of the pre-heresy box and have a little fun.


 
Ankhu Anen- Thousand Sons Guardians of the Great Library

These guys are a bunch of sorcerers that have a headdress similar to what the Thousand Sons have now. I am going to turn them into a squad of Thousand Sons. It will give me an added sorcerer and what is a Thousand Sons army without a Thousand Sons squad?


 
Rehahti Magnus's coven

Uthizaar's sect


 
These guys are Sorcerers in Terminator armor, so I will have them be Obliterators. When I first play tested a pre-heresy army I found out that I desperately needed Oblits. I just lacked the firepower necessary to beat certain armies.

A great take on Stelek crowd vs. Blackmoor part II

Clay went on to say:


 
Clay
@Frank- No, you don't have to be the Champ to recognize this, but re-read a lot of posts on this blog. Those not from Stelek.....

I stand by my point. Why aren't these guys, who run their mouths in the US about the state of the game, and the competition out there crushing the very guys they like to bad mouth? At least Stelek tries to get games in with those other guys, or invites them to his house, things like that. A lot of the "sheep" though, are just internet bullies with no intention of ever showing up in a competitive environment.

If they do/did, they certainly aren't going to come back here and post how they got smashed using these Best Of lists, I know that for a FACT. I know people who do it, but there is no negative feedback. There is no, "hey guys, I got smacked around using this list, here are the Battle reports, what did I do wrong" posts, have you seen any?

So that means 1 of 2 things are happening, either 1. They aren't losing(not true at all), or 2. They are embarrassed for losing, and due to the tone of Stelek's advice, they are afraid to post that they lost, cause they don't want their bandwagon friends stabbing them in the back and slamming their poor play.

Which do you think it is? So again, I ask. Why aren't they crushing us, there are more than enough of them. I'd love to see any one of them come in and destroy the tournament scene in Atlanta. It would drive the competition higher, and to me, thats a good thing. Sad thing is, the guys who have tried, haven't succeeded yet. I am not going to speak for those guys, but I wish they would post some battreps here and ask for advice on how to use the army they copied from here instead of just taking a beating over and over.


Clay


 
Blackmoor: Well said Clay. Why are these all of these "best lists" not dominating the tournament scene?

We have seen 3 major 40K events in the last few months (BolsCon, 'Ard Boyz, and Wild West Shootout) and they are all won by armies that Stelek and his clones hate. So I have to ask, where are these best of 5th edition lists that everyone over at YTTH love?

Do you know what my theory is? That people who depend on the hardest lists to win are often a little deficient in the skill arena and they use those lists to make up for their short comings. So what happens is that they win by over powering their local opponents and they don't learn good fundamental tactics so when they get to large tournaments they end up getting out-played by people who are better players.

A great take on Stelek crowd vs. Blackmoor

Over on Stelek's block Clay wrote this:


 
Clay
Ya know, I come to this blog for several reasons.  There are some good lists here, and I like to argue, and at those times, it's pretty easy to find something I disagree with here and start into something.  But.....

There are lots of zombies/sheep/monkeys/whatever you Stelek clones call yourselves that bash every list, and battle report, all while promoting the ideas that are placed in your head.  That's all fine and dandy, but aren't you guys spread out over the country?

In the Atlanta area, we have several(5+) guys who believe the Stelek mantra, and they consistently show up with lists from here.  Would you like to guess what they have in common?  Other than ZERO tournament wins?  Oh, nothing I guess.  My point is, that there seem to be enough of you that just running your mouths here on this blog seems a waste.  Why aren't you out there DOMINATING the tournament scene?

Soft scores?  Where we play, we use checklists.  There is no COMP, and the painting and sportsmanship are checklisted.  Our lowest Sportsmanship in our last event was a 28 of 30.   While I am not here to debate if this is the right way to do things, it certainly makes Battle points king where we play.

Why aren't you guys out there kicking in heads and crushing all the naysayers?  There are like I said, 5+ living in Atlanta, and they don't win, well, EVER.  They win games, but they don't win tournaments. 

What I keep reading here, is; "So and so won blah blah blah event, but his list sucked and any one of us could have crushed it with our 5th edition lists"  So my question/challenge to you is, why werent you there?  Why arent you EVER there?

Get some T-Shirts, yes, really.  Get out there, show us what you mean.  The tournament scene isn't competitive?  Show up and win some events then, should be relatively easy from what you SAY on this blog.  Not a lot of bit behind that bark from what I've seen though.

Not a slam at all, but a challenge, yelling something on this blog about how great your lists are, and how good you are doesn't mean anything to me because skill is all relative.  Winning in (insert FLGS here) is all well and fine, but surely some of you are out there where these big tournaments are being held and can show up and play right?

Even if soft scores somehow hose you, you should finish high on the battle points chart, maybe some Best General awards?

This is not directly pointed at Stelek,  because I know where he lives, and traveling all around the country doesnt work for some.  But mainly you other "sheep", show up at some big events, win some stuff.  Specifically, come down to Atlanta, if you are near here, or post and let me know where you play that is near Atlanta, and I will try and attend those events as well.


Rant over.


Clay


 

 
Blackmoor: Well said Clay.

Blackmoor vs. the World

Over on YTTH blog I found this post that was in response to me challenging everyone who thinks that they can beat my list, to come and try. I was calling out everyone who is writing a check with their mouth that their play skill can't cash. It is easy to talk big on the internet, and hard to back it up on the table top:



Drkmorals

Hold on a second, I think if everyone doesn't take this personally and steps back a bit there is a great opportunity here. This blog's goal is to better people's playing ability and this fits right in line with it.

We have Blackmoor who won with this elder list that is causing this back and forth debate about how good the list is or isn't. What we seem to actually have is someone willing to play any and all challengers who want a shot at his tourney winning list. So some battle reports of a throw down between his winning list against some other players could be a great learning tool. It will open the floor to open discussion about theory vs actual playing. In the end no matter who wins or doesn't win this is a win for the community in general. We could get some good content out of this that could lead to some great discussion about the game. PEOPLE COULD LEARN FROM THIS. All we need are some actual volunteers and for people to step back and not be all personal about it.

We also need some other things like non tailoring, bring a all comers list that you would normally bring and have a tourney style game with the man. Make a battle report, don't be an ass with something to prove. Show up and play like you would at a tourney, and let's get comments from both sides. A series of these reports if Blackmoor is game could like I said be really good for the community as a whole.



Drkmorals is right, and this could be a good learning experience for everyone.

I am not angry at people who say my list sucks, I find it rather amusing. I offer to drive to where you are is not out of nerd rage, but because I am new to Phoenix and I like to drive around and see some sights and go to different game shops.

I am always up for a game and a challenge, and I would like to post some batreps against tougher lists, and really test my play and my army and see how they stack up against them. Right now in tournament play I am 12-1-1 with that army and my one loss was only because the game ended on turn 4, and the tie was because it was a capture and control mission where my opponent just turtled up on his objective.

We can finally see if "Stelek-approved" lists can really beat a good tournament list. We can find out on the table top who will win in a matchup of theory hammer vs. proven lists.



A couple of notes: I will change my army around a little bit, but the core will remain the same.

I will also be at Empire Games Turkey Bowl RTT on Nov 14^th-15^th in Mesa, AZ, which will be a 5 game tournament, so if you want to play me anonymously, this is a good chance for you to do it.