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Sunday, November 22, 2009
What are the top tier armies?
There is an interesting post over on Dakka. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/266407.page
That asks the question what are the top lists?
In the past I would put them into 3 tiers (good, bad, and ugly) and listed the most competitive builds. But after some thought, I no longer do this, and the reasons why is that I think you can win with any codex. The codexes that I thought were in the bottom of the tiered system were Necrons and Demonhunters and I think that I can win with both of them.
I will make the argument that what everyone thinks are top tier lists are just easier to play, and not necessarily better than the other codexes. And don't get me wrong by thinking that what I am saying is that you can win with any units, and that any 1500 points is the same and any other 1500 points, but each codex has enough good units that can work together well enough to where you can build a successful winning army.
Take for example, what everyone thinks are a top tier chaos list. You have tough demon princes, plague marines that just sit around and take damage, and oblits. It is a pretty easy army to play. You can also look at what people think are top tier Eldar builds of Mech and Seer council. Mech Eldar armies work under the principle of if your opponent does not have enough anti-tank you win, if they do then you are in trouble. The seer council just has a very durable unit that just heads to the opponents, and assaults. Not much brain power required. Both those builds are super easy to play.
Necrons vs. Imperial Guard.
A lot of people think that Necrons are one of the worst armies and at the bottom if the tiers. If you look at the results of the UK GT heat #2 Necrons did well with one person coming in at 8th place (higher than any Space Marine player). Why was that possible? Because you can win with Necrons. The army plays similar to my Eldar do because they are able to shoot a lot of strength 6 shooting, and they are quite durable. Here is the problem with them, they are bad in assault, so what players have to do with them is think 2-3 turns ahead and plan accordingly. This is the same as the 4th edition IG codex. You had to plan your moves and think ahead several turns to win with this army. Now that the 5th edition IG codex is here, there is a lot less thinking that you have to do with Vendettas, Valkyries, and all of the different HS choices that the army is now on "easy mode" and requires much less thought.
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Completely disagree with Mech Eldar banking on not enough Anti-Tank. Sure, have 50 Lascannons, you won't kill the occupants of the tanks as well in good time if you don't have the proper equipment.
ReplyDeleteThe main advantage of Mech Eldar is it's durability AND mobility. Pass it off as easier to play, sure, but why make it harder for one's self? Saying "Haha, I didn't use the best thing available to me and still won?" That sounds cocky and rude.
Seer Councils on the other hand, are no different than any other tool other armies use. SM have their Termies, Orks have their Nobs, IG has their superior heavy weaponry, etc. Just because something is EASIER to use doesn't mean one shouldn't lean that way and should not be ridiculed.
I for one also think there is no best, just given army vs. given army. But mobile is certainly superior than immobile.
There are 2 types of Mech Eldar.
ReplyDeleteThe first type has 5 Dire Avengers as an excuse to take more Wave Serpents and it depends on the Serpents overloading the opponents ability to kill them, as well as doing all of the armies killing.
The second type uses wave serpents for transporting their units like seer councils and full dire avengers squads with bladestorm.
Both of the armies have invested a lot of points into their transports, and if you are able to take them down then you are on your way to winning. Although the Eldar army that uses wave serpents as transports will be in better shape if you are able to down their transports than the one that has them as their main source for killing, but both armies will be crippled.
And I can say for a foot list relying without, they are crippled from the get go because Toughness 3 does die quite easily even with possible 2+ Cover Saves these days.
ReplyDeleteI have faced the Foot varients of Eldar a lot, even the Wraithguard Iyanden lists, and they suffer more than a Mechdar list does because they try to be rocks where they can't feasibly be that all too well. No way to contest other objectives, no way to change battle plans significantly, and overall show why Eldar can get a Strategy Rating of 2 in the past - With mobility you give the Eldar list overall more options than it does on foot. Like, I don't expect Fire Dragons to live on foot PERIOD but if you prove me wrong on this one and show me some successful games with them having a major role on foot, that'd turn my leaf over.