A quick update

A little news:

 

BoK contacted me to do a little work for them. They have an interesting 40K blog so if you have never checked them out before you can find them here:

http://bloodofkittens.com/?p=1880

 

Also there was some talk about doing a full in depth battle report. What I mean by that is not just writing down what happened, but a full tactical breakdown of every little movement. I am thinking about it, but it will be a lot of work.

Adepticon

I just signed up for Adepticon.

I told myself that I was going to take it easy for next year, and not do the Gladiator, but I ended up signing up for it anyways. If they had some better games or seminars I would skip it.



So once again I find myself doing the Iron Man of 4 Gladiator Games, 4 Team Tournament Games and 3 Championship games.



I love being there, but at the end of the weekend I am burned out, and I am glad to come home.

I also added a painting seminar from Chris Borer. I normally I am playing in tournaments and can't take a seminar, but I am glad that they scheduled one after the Gladiator so I can go. Of course it ends at 12 midnight, and I have to wake up at 7:00am or so for the Team Tournament, and I am already jet lagged, so that ain't going to be pretty.



Now I need to make a 2250 point Gladiator army. I am not a big forgeworld guy, but I told myself that I will bring something with some structure points this year. Maybe a Silver Tower of Tzeentch, or a Brass Scorpion or maybe I will just run a regular army.

Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons part II

Taking the units from the previous post, here is the preliminary list:



HQs

Ahriman-Chief Librarian of the Thousand Sons

Ahriman -250 Points



Elites

Kargori Dreadnought

Dreadnought w/Multimelta, Extra armor -115 Points



Troops

Jafari Tactical Support Squad

9 CSM w/Lascannon, Plasma Gun, IoCG -225 points

Aspiring Champion w/Power Weapon



Pa-Siamun Tactical Squad

9 CSM w/Lascannon, Plasma Gun, IoCG -270 -points

Aspiring Champion w/Power Fist

Tu-Amun Rhino

Rhino 35 points



Ankhu Anen- Thousand Sons Guardians of the Great Library

8 Thousand Sons -304

Aspiring Sorcerer w/Bolt of Change

Tu-Amun Rhino

Rhino



Heavy Support

Sobek-Heavy Support Squad (Missile Launcher)

8 Havoc Marines w/4 Missile Launchers, IoCG -225 Points



Rehahti Magnus's coven

3 Obliterators -210



Uthizaar's sect

2 Obliterators -150



1749 Points.

Strength:

It has 8+ units that can shoot strength 8 shots. Lot of people look at the amount of the shooting, and don't realize that you need a lot of units that can shoot at different targets. Although some of the shooting is strength 8 AP1 is only 24"

Weakness:

Assault. Ahriman is the only model good in assault, and he is just ok. They have nice pictures of the Thousand Son's assault squads and I might do a squad of them since I found a company that sells the resin pre-heresy turbofan backpacks.

Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons

He begining

I am a long time Thousand Sons player and I would like to re-visit them. I have been in the hobby for a while and I took most of 2^nd edition off when I lived in Utah, and when I came back into the hobby near the end of 3^rd and I did it with the Thousand Sons. Even though everyone said that they are a bad army I loved the look of the army and the fluff for them. In fact, they have the best background story in 40k. So when I started playing them I started to win a lot of RTTs. So when I posted my batreps I got the same reaction from everyone that I do now winning with an army that the "group think" says that you can't win with.

I tapered off a bit with 4^th edition with them because of the use of scoring units. My army was so small to start with that by the end of the game my units were all chewed up. I killed more VPs then my opponent did, but they still had more units than me and were able to win the game. Then the 4^th edition chaos codex came out and that was the end of a real Thousand Sons army. I still play a combination of my Word Bearers with my Thousand Sons, and I try to keep to the fluff, but it is just not the same. To mix it up a little I took my 3^rd edition Thousand Sons army to Adepticon last year and I even went 2 for 2 in the Gladiator but only 0-2-1 and against the hardest lists I have seen at the Invitational.


 
Building a winning army:

When you are building a pre-heresy army you really have 2 codexs to choose from, Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines. I debated back and forth, and even though the Space Marine codex has things like Land Speeders that the Chaos list doesn't I still am going with the Chaos Codex.

Now the chaos codex is ok, and I have played a lot of games with it, and made it work without lash and 9 oblits, but you almost have to take out all of the good units of the codex to make it a pre-heresy army. I already started out handicapped when I played a Thousand Sons based army so that means that I could not take any other marks other than Tzeentch, but when you make it a pre-heresy army you also can't take any good units like Demon Princes, Oblits, etc. and that really neuters the army.

So let's look at what I can take.

Here is a list of the units that appear in the Horus Heresy Visions of War books:

HQs

Ahriman-Chief Librarian of the Thousand Sons

Uthizaar Librarian-Sorcerer

Phosis T'Kar Librarian-Sorcerer

Hathor Maat Librarian-Sorcerer

Brother Amsu

Apophis Command Squad


 
Elites

Sekhmet- Terminators


 
Kargori Dreadnought


 
Troops

Prahotpe recon squad

Prahote recon Squad

Tolbek Tactical Squad

Jafari Tactical Support Squad

Pa-Siamun Tactical Squad

Tu-Amun Rhino


 
Fast Attack

Amunis Assault Squad

Resenmut Assault Squad

Menkaura Assault squad

Qaa Land Speeder


 
Heavy Support

Sobek-Heavy Support Squad (Missile Launcher)

Kalid Heavy Support Squad (Heavy Bolters)

Nebmaetre Heavy Support Squad (Plasma Guns)

Amensos-Heavy Support Squad


 
Unknown

T'Kaar Cabel

Uthizaar's sect

Rehahti Magnus's coven

Ankhu Anen- Thousand Sons Guardians of the Great Library

The scarab occult


 
Now let's take those units and see if we can distil it down to a working army.


 
HQ

Ahriman-Chief Librarian of the Thousand Sons

I would like to take Ahriman to give the army some panache and he had been upgraded a little bit this edition; (it was odd that the most powerful librarian in the universe couldn't even use a power/force weapon and they finally got around to giving him one). He is not worth his points, but he is a matter of style over substance. I thought about adding another sorcerer right now, and if I take the list up to 2000 point I might, but for now, just Ahriman will have to do.

Elite

Kargori Dreadnought

Chaos dreadnoughts are a bit of a loose cannon, but they have their uses. They are great at tying up assault units that do not have high strength, like bloodcrushers, etc.

Troops

Tolbek Tactical Squad

Jafari Tactical Support Squad

Pa-Siamun Tactical Squad

Tu-Amun Rhino


 
Normal Chaos Marine squads are a must haves and are good all-around shooting and assault units.


 

Heavy Support

Sobek-Heavy Support Squad (Missile Launcher)

I like havoc squads. Missile launchers are good all-around heavy weapons that are good at killing vehicles, hordes and MEQs.


 
So with that I have the core of my army. But that is not enough, and that army is so boring and vanilla *yawn* looking at those units long enough and it will cure your insomnia.


 
So what I am going to do is take some creative license and step out of the pre-heresy box and have a little fun.


 
Ankhu Anen- Thousand Sons Guardians of the Great Library

These guys are a bunch of sorcerers that have a headdress similar to what the Thousand Sons have now. I am going to turn them into a squad of Thousand Sons. It will give me an added sorcerer and what is a Thousand Sons army without a Thousand Sons squad?


 
Rehahti Magnus's coven

Uthizaar's sect


 
These guys are Sorcerers in Terminator armor, so I will have them be Obliterators. When I first play tested a pre-heresy army I found out that I desperately needed Oblits. I just lacked the firepower necessary to beat certain armies.

A great take on Stelek crowd vs. Blackmoor part II

Clay went on to say:


 
Clay
@Frank- No, you don't have to be the Champ to recognize this, but re-read a lot of posts on this blog. Those not from Stelek.....

I stand by my point. Why aren't these guys, who run their mouths in the US about the state of the game, and the competition out there crushing the very guys they like to bad mouth? At least Stelek tries to get games in with those other guys, or invites them to his house, things like that. A lot of the "sheep" though, are just internet bullies with no intention of ever showing up in a competitive environment.

If they do/did, they certainly aren't going to come back here and post how they got smashed using these Best Of lists, I know that for a FACT. I know people who do it, but there is no negative feedback. There is no, "hey guys, I got smacked around using this list, here are the Battle reports, what did I do wrong" posts, have you seen any?

So that means 1 of 2 things are happening, either 1. They aren't losing(not true at all), or 2. They are embarrassed for losing, and due to the tone of Stelek's advice, they are afraid to post that they lost, cause they don't want their bandwagon friends stabbing them in the back and slamming their poor play.

Which do you think it is? So again, I ask. Why aren't they crushing us, there are more than enough of them. I'd love to see any one of them come in and destroy the tournament scene in Atlanta. It would drive the competition higher, and to me, thats a good thing. Sad thing is, the guys who have tried, haven't succeeded yet. I am not going to speak for those guys, but I wish they would post some battreps here and ask for advice on how to use the army they copied from here instead of just taking a beating over and over.


Clay


 
Blackmoor: Well said Clay. Why are these all of these "best lists" not dominating the tournament scene?

We have seen 3 major 40K events in the last few months (BolsCon, 'Ard Boyz, and Wild West Shootout) and they are all won by armies that Stelek and his clones hate. So I have to ask, where are these best of 5th edition lists that everyone over at YTTH love?

Do you know what my theory is? That people who depend on the hardest lists to win are often a little deficient in the skill arena and they use those lists to make up for their short comings. So what happens is that they win by over powering their local opponents and they don't learn good fundamental tactics so when they get to large tournaments they end up getting out-played by people who are better players.

A great take on Stelek crowd vs. Blackmoor

Over on Stelek's block Clay wrote this:


 
Clay
Ya know, I come to this blog for several reasons.  There are some good lists here, and I like to argue, and at those times, it's pretty easy to find something I disagree with here and start into something.  But.....

There are lots of zombies/sheep/monkeys/whatever you Stelek clones call yourselves that bash every list, and battle report, all while promoting the ideas that are placed in your head.  That's all fine and dandy, but aren't you guys spread out over the country?

In the Atlanta area, we have several(5+) guys who believe the Stelek mantra, and they consistently show up with lists from here.  Would you like to guess what they have in common?  Other than ZERO tournament wins?  Oh, nothing I guess.  My point is, that there seem to be enough of you that just running your mouths here on this blog seems a waste.  Why aren't you out there DOMINATING the tournament scene?

Soft scores?  Where we play, we use checklists.  There is no COMP, and the painting and sportsmanship are checklisted.  Our lowest Sportsmanship in our last event was a 28 of 30.   While I am not here to debate if this is the right way to do things, it certainly makes Battle points king where we play.

Why aren't you guys out there kicking in heads and crushing all the naysayers?  There are like I said, 5+ living in Atlanta, and they don't win, well, EVER.  They win games, but they don't win tournaments. 

What I keep reading here, is; "So and so won blah blah blah event, but his list sucked and any one of us could have crushed it with our 5th edition lists"  So my question/challenge to you is, why werent you there?  Why arent you EVER there?

Get some T-Shirts, yes, really.  Get out there, show us what you mean.  The tournament scene isn't competitive?  Show up and win some events then, should be relatively easy from what you SAY on this blog.  Not a lot of bit behind that bark from what I've seen though.

Not a slam at all, but a challenge, yelling something on this blog about how great your lists are, and how good you are doesn't mean anything to me because skill is all relative.  Winning in (insert FLGS here) is all well and fine, but surely some of you are out there where these big tournaments are being held and can show up and play right?

Even if soft scores somehow hose you, you should finish high on the battle points chart, maybe some Best General awards?

This is not directly pointed at Stelek,  because I know where he lives, and traveling all around the country doesnt work for some.  But mainly you other "sheep", show up at some big events, win some stuff.  Specifically, come down to Atlanta, if you are near here, or post and let me know where you play that is near Atlanta, and I will try and attend those events as well.


Rant over.


Clay


 

 
Blackmoor: Well said Clay.

Blackmoor vs. the World

Over on YTTH blog I found this post that was in response to me challenging everyone who thinks that they can beat my list, to come and try. I was calling out everyone who is writing a check with their mouth that their play skill can't cash. It is easy to talk big on the internet, and hard to back it up on the table top:



Drkmorals

Hold on a second, I think if everyone doesn't take this personally and steps back a bit there is a great opportunity here. This blog's goal is to better people's playing ability and this fits right in line with it.

We have Blackmoor who won with this elder list that is causing this back and forth debate about how good the list is or isn't. What we seem to actually have is someone willing to play any and all challengers who want a shot at his tourney winning list. So some battle reports of a throw down between his winning list against some other players could be a great learning tool. It will open the floor to open discussion about theory vs actual playing. In the end no matter who wins or doesn't win this is a win for the community in general. We could get some good content out of this that could lead to some great discussion about the game. PEOPLE COULD LEARN FROM THIS. All we need are some actual volunteers and for people to step back and not be all personal about it.

We also need some other things like non tailoring, bring a all comers list that you would normally bring and have a tourney style game with the man. Make a battle report, don't be an ass with something to prove. Show up and play like you would at a tourney, and let's get comments from both sides. A series of these reports if Blackmoor is game could like I said be really good for the community as a whole.



Drkmorals is right, and this could be a good learning experience for everyone.

I am not angry at people who say my list sucks, I find it rather amusing. I offer to drive to where you are is not out of nerd rage, but because I am new to Phoenix and I like to drive around and see some sights and go to different game shops.

I am always up for a game and a challenge, and I would like to post some batreps against tougher lists, and really test my play and my army and see how they stack up against them. Right now in tournament play I am 12-1-1 with that army and my one loss was only because the game ended on turn 4, and the tie was because it was a capture and control mission where my opponent just turtled up on his objective.

We can finally see if "Stelek-approved" lists can really beat a good tournament list. We can find out on the table top who will win in a matchup of theory hammer vs. proven lists.



A couple of notes: I will change my army around a little bit, but the core will remain the same.

I will also be at Empire Games Turkey Bowl RTT on Nov 14^th-15^th in Mesa, AZ, which will be a 5 game tournament, so if you want to play me anonymously, this is a good chance for you to do it.